The Main Problem
Before I begin, please let me say thank you to a few recent commenters - John B, Gwen and Lene. Your participation is very much appreciated.
I’d also like to say thank you to another commenter - Micky - though your participation is not as well received, personally. Not because you are so obviously resentful towards Twelve Step groups, but because you had to flood the Blog with the identical comment in a lame attempt to get your angry point across.
In a way, once again, I find gratitude in some strange places. What Micky has done offers me the opportunity to be grateful that I’ve learned that freedom of speech is very, very important, even on a Twelve Step Blog. There is an opposing opinion! It has a right to be heard.
Oh - and I have a right to respond :-)
Hence, the title of this post.
From the Big Book, pg. 23;
“These observations would be academic and pointless if our friend never took the first drink, thereby setting the terrible cycle in motion. Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body.”
It may be only my personal perception but Micky has done well to prove this to me with his/her comment. You can see it here.
Yesterday was a magnificent day! Having the opportunity to listen to a friend’s Fifth Step was an absolute gift! It went extremely well and we both came away with good feelings about being alive. Good Stuff!!!
The picture of the book? It is not AA approved literature (neither is the Bible… lol) but my friend and a number of other friends of ours are using it to do something to enhance their sobriety - going back to the basics with a method almost identical to the way the original AA’s did it. Here’s what it says;
“This book describes in Step-by-Step detail the ‘original’ Alcoholics Anonymous Beginners’ Meetings that produced a 50-75% recovery rate from alcoholism during the 1940’s.”
What am I willing to do to stay sober? Anything!
Tags: 12-Steps, alcoholics-anonymous, gratitude, RecoveryRelated Stories
POSTED IN: Experience, Strength and Hope, Opinion
17 opinions for The Main Problem
John B
Jul 27, 2006 at 12:42 pm
Comes one of my favorite parts of the book Alcoholics Anonmymous from Working with Others:
“If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us. But point out that we alcoholics have much in common and that you would like, in any case, to be friendly. Let it go at that.”
And again, in the appendix “Spiritual Experience”:
“The terms “spiritual experience” and “spiritual awakening” are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms.”
I’m so very grateful we are all individually granted the freedom to seek Him in whatever way we choose.
Thank You Everyone for helping me find my light.
dAAve / higher powered
Jul 27, 2006 at 4:45 pm
I suspect Mickey will have no tolerance for me.
I am a gay man and happy about it. I’m also single, but support the right of 20 million AMERICAN gay men to have the same rights of the other 130 million men.
I was raised to Live and Let Live. Give it a try, Mickey. It works much better than hatred.
Gwen
Jul 27, 2006 at 6:43 pm
I am glad your step five went well. It is good stuff. Great stuff really.
I love the former two responses. I was going to write more but decided I need to walk the walk and shut up ;)
Micky
Oct 17, 2006 at 2:40 pm
12 Step Zombies
Some zombies have the appearance of the living but their lack of free will and souls give them the appearance of mechanical robots.
Other display visible signs of desiccation, decay and emaciation on their face and body. They have blank, expressionless faces that become more animated when they get hungry and engage in a feeding frenzy.
They are incapable of speech, but often tend to make moaning and guttural sounds. They are normally encountered wearing whatever clothing they wore in their human life, prior to reanimation.
I imagine Steppers make moaning & guttural sounds when they go to a 12 Step meeting.I imagine they have blank and expressionless faces that become more animated when they are “hungry” for a “meeting” & then go on a “feeding frenzy” - expound meaningless diatribe & infect the other Steppers with Bill Wilson propaganda.
Peace Be With You
Micky
John B
Oct 17, 2006 at 3:19 pm
I find it refreshing that someone wanted to comment on a topic that hadn’t seen action in almost 3 months… Not only to comment, but to expend the energy to scoff. I mean … what’s the point?? I don’t even know what the point of my response is except to clarify the importance of keeping with the singleness of purpose.
I believe my job is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. And I personally like to stick to that… In a meeting of alcoholics anonymous, our primary purpose is to carry the message to the alcoholic that still suffers. I come to the meetings to try and help my fellow sufferer. I come to give not take. That’s the singleness of purpose. It’s one of our traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous. The traditions were laid out so we could protect ourselves from our greatest enemies: “ourselves”. In my homegroup, we strictly adhere to that singleness of purpose. NO outside issues. No drug talks, No eating disorder talks, no politics and no football scores. In my homegroup, if you don’t have the desire to quit drinking, you’re asked to leave… Because my homegroup has a responsibility to the suffering alcoholic and nothing more. Any of these other issues don’t do anything but seperate us from each other and divide us. Sure I vote and I have opinions… but I don’t share those opinions at meetings unless it’s directly related to alcoholism. Last I checked, talking about who I vote for or if I even vote doesn’t have a single ounce of getting over the drink problem in it. I expect others who come to my closed homegroup meetings to do the same and I’ll ask them to leave if they insist on breaking the traditions. Thats how I can safeguard this valuable set of principles that saved my life. If you don’t respect it as much as I do, then don’t waste your time or mine. If you have a desire to quit drinking and are willing to follow a few suggestions then come on in, sit down, try to conceptualize what god means to you get to the causes and conditions that cause you to behave the way you do and then start looking for the person nearest you that might be suffering and figure out a way to help them.
In love and service
A Dozen Steps » Ah Yes! The Imposition Of One’s Will
Oct 17, 2006 at 5:46 pm
[…] #1 - The Main Problem […]
Mark
Oct 17, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Thanks John,
Haven’t seen you in a while - good to see you back!
Micky
Oct 18, 2006 at 4:04 am
Greetings John
You mentioned in your posting that your primary purpose is to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers. I felt some sadness - I imagine you are a “control freak,” like most alcoholics & I wondered if a good therapist might assist you in processing your feelings. How do you feel Johnny? No mention of how you feel!! What message do think you would be able to carry to the still suffering alcoholic, Jack? How to have your brain completely altered & end up insane like Bill Wilson!! What does “… try to conceptualise what god means to you…” - - mean, Jack? Don’t you know that God has revealed Himself through Jesus Christ?? Are you aware that Christ died for you, Johnny? Is your higher power a “doorknob? I feel some pain - I imagine AA has sublimated your true personality & you have become just another Bill & Bob clone. I will pray for Johnny!! Get down on your knees & ask Jesus (not a higher power) to have mercy on you & forgive you, your sins.
Peace Be With You
Micky
Mark
Oct 18, 2006 at 6:31 am
Ah Ha! Climbing to the top of the heap by belittling others!
John - did you give ole’ canned Micky your permission to call you “Johnny?”
Micky
Oct 18, 2006 at 7:21 am
Mark!You didn’t mention how you felt. I imagine you were “raging” over your fear, pain & shame. It’s fine by me that you express your feelings, Mark! Making me wrong (Ah Ha! Climbing to the top of the heap by belittling others!) will only keep you in your “psychological prison” - your procees is not about me, but from your childhood. Do you know how you feel, Mark? I feel some pain & sadness - I imagine you are a good person - the “cult has made you into a raging, Bill & Bob head. Please tell me how you feel Mark - if you decide to respond to my comment. I “love” you Mark & will pray for you & John B.
Peace Be With You
Micky
Gwen
Oct 18, 2006 at 9:46 am
I can’t help but wonder if Jesus Christ would taunt people? From my own understanding of Jesus Christ he wanted to help people and was kind. I will pray for the still sick and suffering in the world.
Gwen
Micky
Oct 18, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Greetings Gwen
8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. [Colossians 2: 8]
I imagine the only person you are taunting, is yourself. Don’t you know that Jesus Christ died for you, Gwen!! Have you been indoctrinated with the 12 Steps? Are the 12 Steps in the Bible, Gwen? How do feel Gwen? I imagine you are in quite a lot of pain & like most Steppers, your automatic response is to “rage” ( I can’t help but wonder if Jesus Christ would taunt people? ) over your terror. I imagine you are a terrified “little girl!” I will pray for you, Gwen? Are you a Christian?
Peace Be With You
Micky
Mark
Oct 18, 2006 at 4:59 pm
Wow… You sink lower and lower with every single additional comment Micky.
I’ll go out on a limb here and now. You are most definitely not sober! A sober state of mind is about the furthest thing from your “truth” or “reality.”
Micky
Oct 18, 2006 at 11:31 pm
Greetings Mark
Thanks for responding to my comments. How long have you been sober, “young fella?” I am a recovered alcoholic with over 21 years sobriety. Are you a recovered alcoholic, Mark? I get a sense you have quite a lot of “stuff” to process, which I imagine would be difficult for you to face because of your terror. I feel some pain, because I imagine you are anti - Christ, which would make processing your rage, that much more difficult. I wish I could help you Mark, but I get a sense you are unteachable. All I can do is pray for you. I forgive you for your diatribe. I hope you haven’t condemned yourself.
17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. [John 3: 17 – 18]
Were you aware that Bill Wilson was a psychopath? Are you a psychopath, Mark?
Peace Be With You
Micky
Mark
Oct 19, 2006 at 6:17 am
Gosh, gee, Micky… as I just told someone else - you spot it, you got it…
John B
Oct 19, 2006 at 10:10 pm
Gosh, I believe this thread could use a change of pace, so here goes:
I figured out a long time ago it’s useless to try and teach a pig to sing. It’s a horrible waste of time and it annoys the pig.
The wonderful thing about A.A. is that it isn’t supposed to be in conflict with anyones religious beliefs. It there’s a conflict, a misunderstanding somewhere. I’m not sure what the point of sharing scripture was in this forum, other than to let us know some of your personal beliefs. Again, those personal beliefs are yours. You have the right to believe what you want just like me. The point remains, our religious beliefs are OUTSIDE the scope of Alcoholics Anonymous. The instant we let those outside issues in, we seperate this solution from someone else. I wrote “this solution” above because there are many roads and since this is a forum based on the Dozen Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous, we’re talking about This solution.
I have several people in my group, (Yes, I live in the bible belt) who were athiest on their arrival to A.A. Now, their faith is something to be admired. If I or anyone else had crammed scripture, or philosophy or politics down their throats, they certainly wouldn’t have remained to pray. Those folks would never have stepped foot in a church, a synagoge, temple, sweat lodge or bible study but they found the very thing so many seem to miss. A personal relationship with a god of their own understanding.
In spite of what may be said or believed, there are a few things that A.A. Does NOT do. The General Service Office prints a letter that has 14 items listed as things AA Does Not Do. Number 7 on the list is: A.A. Does Not Make Medical or Psychological diagnoses or prognoses. If that’s going on, it’s not A.A. If you want that kind of help, seek out the professionals who do that kind of stuff. To listen to someone in A.A. make a psychological evaluation makes as much sense as going to the airport to catch a train. The letter can be found here:
http://www.aa.org/en_information_aa.cfm?PageID=11
I respect your beliefs Mick, as I’m sure everyone here does. I would expect someone with as much experience with the lord, jesus and who has as much sobriety as you have to respect others beliefs with equal, if not greater proportions.
This is the kind of thing that happens to meetings when we start to make them “open” meetings. Before long, outside issues begin to creep in and after a while you don’t even have an A.A. meeting. You’ve got something that looks like an armchair psychology debate, with a few offended jews and a couple of christians that are all puffed up and a newcomer that’s cowering in the corner (but not for long). This thread is a perfect example how how the unity starts to crack when the spiritual principles of the traditions aren’t followed. It’s happening to “meetings” all over the country and has been for too long. I’d really appreciate it if we could stick to the solution found in the Book Alcoholics Anonymous or in some of the conference approved literature. Our common welfare should come first. The primary purpose of the twelve steps of alcoholics anonymous are to carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers. A.A. has no opinion on outside issues. There is but one ultimate authority, a loving god as he may express himself in our group conscience…. If you don’t know what these mean, or if you don’t have any desire to learn them or practice them please go somewhere else and meet under a name other than Alcoholics Anonymous, because that’s what you’re doing.
In love and service
David
Oct 19, 2006 at 11:53 pm
Nowhere in the 12 steps does it say that you should quit drinking, or help anyone else to quit drinking, either. Nowhere do the words “sobriety,” “recovery,” “abstinence,” “health, “happiness,” “joy,” “love” appear in the 12 steps. The word ‘alcohol’ is only used once, when it was patched into the 1st Step for the word SIN. Bill Wilson wrote, “We are powerless over ALCOHOL etc…” Oxford group slogan, “We are powerless over SIN & have been defeated my it.
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